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St Alfege planning Roan Street development?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by rob, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. rob Administrator

    The St Alfege 2007 Parish Conference agreed as one of its aims to develop homes on the land in its car park, facing on to Roan Street.

    That didn't happen, in part because of the financial crash of 2008, but Greenwich.co.uk understands the plan will again be up for consideration at this year's Parish Conference.

    If it was to happen, the new homes could provide an income that would help pay for a new Church Hall.

    There was some opposition to the development plans before - do you think it's a good or bad idea?

    (Link to video presentation removed as was no longer working)
  2. Darreb Member

    I notice you have to go a very long way through the presentation to get to the bit where they'll bulldoze the nursery and bungalow.

    Funny that just doesn't seem to fit with the idea of the church at the centre of its community. Time for placards once more then!
  3. Md78 Member

    I consider it a bad idea - purely from a selfish standpoint. Firstly isn't it an old graveyard? Secondly I think its got some nice cobbled areas which we are seriously in danger of running out of if all these 'developments' go ahead. Also its nice to have some open space in the town centre, bear in mind that a housing trust currently has plans in to develop housing on that little tree lined park which runs along Creek Road up to the old pub/book store. So that will be more open space gone soon given over to yet more housing. I understand there is a housing shortage but over population needs to be tackled rather than paving over every inch of this city creating a jam packed ghetto for no-one to enjoy. So yeah, I am against.
  4. Paul T Member

    For what it's worth, some other Hawksmoor churches, notably St Anne's Limehouse, are surrounded by a ring of period houses, in much the way they're discussing here.

    That said, the standard of proposed design and detailing for this would have to be exceptionally high; beyond anything we've seen in Greenwich in the last 70 or 80 years.
  5. Stalf Member

    This idea is at an embryonic stage , the presentation which you may have viewed hasn't been seen even by the PCC yet; so it was a mistake on our part to put it out in a public place. However I welcome your comments if it allows a few misconceptions to be put right.
    So firstly, Darreb you commented about the bungalow and Nursery. It makes sense to build a new nursery, if that is what is needed, before knocking down the old one. Likewise the cottage houses the caretakers family. Both these buildings are in a very poor condition.
    Md78 asks if it was an old graveyard. The answer is no. The only bit which was ever considered for building is the car park along Roan St. This area was under houses before the Germans demolished them for us in 1942. You may not be aware that the scars from the war are still very much with us and need to be healed. Just look at the end wall of the Mitre. The open space is not threatened and the cobbles will remain, though they will be re-used in different positions because we do have a problem in pushing wheel chairs over them to the hall and church. On Creek Road/Bardsley Lane the old woodyard site which is likely to be built on next year is not open space at present. It is an eyesore of burnt out weeds and hoardings.
    Paul comments on Hawksmoor's other churches and I absolutely agree that this site calls for a completely new standard of architecture. Also the vicar is doing some research on Hawksmoor's approach and theology and has turned up a sketch by him of an unbuilt church near Bethnal Green which gives a good idea of how he hoped the surroundings of the church would be formed. The space around the church, about 70' wide is to create a sort of half way house between the public realm and the sacred realm (inside the church). There are then what looks like a series of courtyards, one for burials, one a cloister for remembrance, and a 'flat field or crop field given by Mr Slater of Grays Inn' which has a school along one side. So there are a number of enclosed spaces with various buildings concerned with the life of the community around them (including houses). I hope this is of interest to you and just ask that you give us time to evolve something which will be beneficial to all and allow the life of the community centred on the church to flourish. There will of course be a lot of discussion internally followed by a lot of consultation externally in due time.
    Anyone who would particularly like a chance to have their say should email me at ct@stalf.org.uk at the due time.
    rob likes this.
  6. Suzanne New Member

    Stalf: Thank you for explaining. I live near the church but am not a member. I contributed towards the restoration fund because the church is a vital part of the community, and I imagine a great many other residents of Greenwich did so too, for the same reason. It would be rash to squander that good will by planning in secret and consulting only at late stages. I would like to make a plea for very early openness and continual consultation with residents, especially very nearby ones, to address worries and to take into account potential objections from the start. It is surely possible to build much-needed houses etc that meet the church's needs and enhance the church grounds without infringing on neighbours' privacy or amenities.
  7. Stalf Member

    Dear Suzanne, We have already started talking to neighbours and have had 12 interviews so far. They have been useful and will continue. I would be happy to put you on the contact list if you email me your address to ct@stalf.org.uk
  8. Md78 Member

    Thanks for the info Stalf. I didnt realize that the Bardsley Lane development will be on a grey site so that's really good news.
    Assuming the houses being proposed for At Alfeges are of a very high quality and in keeping with the Victorian/Georgian surrounds (rather than a hideous modern architects indulgence hoping to 'inspire' and 'challenge' etc....) then I would think that the idea isn't a bad one. But as I am not a direct neighbour and not affected I will leave the discussion there. Also it would be nice if the houses were sold to English owner occupiers rather than Malaysian investors, thereby actually helping with the housing crisis.
  9. Stalf Member

    Bardsley Lane/Creek Road is in for Planning now, number 13/0364/F if you are interested.
  10. Jezebel Member

    Do we really need anymore developments in Greenwich town centre? The whole area seems to be loosing all of it's history lately. It's going to end up looking like a newbuild eyesore round here with no original buildings left.
  11. Stalf Member

    Dear Jezebel,
    You ain't seen nothing yet. They have not started on the market! We agree that we don't want new build eyesores.
  12. Paul T Member

    The Bardsley Lane development is up to five storeys (although as yet the D&A statement isn't available online). That's outrageously high as a replacement for what is essentially a run of two-storey buildings. This is the biggest threat we've had to the town centre since the market proposals.
  13. rob Administrator

  14. Darreb Member

    I'm a bit confused here, is St. Alfege connected to/dependant upon the Bardsley Lane development?

    Also I'm not sure that I'd describe the creation of 5 floor blocks and the loss of some green space and trees (not to mention the bulldozing of one man's home as good news. Am I getting confused with two similar developments?
  15. Paul T Member

    Five storeys? If only.

    David Herbert's shop, the Book Place, won't be demolished, this time around.

    What's not a surprise is the usual dodgy developer spiel which mean the tallest buildings are, by most reasonable people's definitions, six-storey. This on a road, the main entrance to a World Heritage site, which is primarily two storey. The Up The Creek building, formerly a significant presence in the block, will be hemmed in and dwarfed by these anonymously-styled, but hulking great blocks. And, of course, more green space will be gone forever.
  16. Suzanne New Member

    I imagine that various experts and the people living next to the site of the proposed St Alfege church development in Roan Street (nothing to do directly with Bardsley Lane) can agree on buildings that suit the site without infringing on immediate neighbours' amenities. I think the idea of housing there, replacing housing lost in the war, is excellent. So I am less worried about the actual buildings than about social aspects. But I would strongly oppose any development if it created parking problems for existing residents (including me); or if it were socially divisive (creating a homogeneous enclave renting only to the rich or to people with some kind of pull or special interest rather than to all sorts of people with all levels of housing need, including affordable and social housing); or if it were closed to its surroundings, creating an "us-and-them" vibe between town and church; of if it imposed a monolithic development along Roan Street that, combined with the three-storey houses opposite, would create a canyon-like effect.

    Greenwich needs to cherish its village-like character. It is in danger of beoming an overcrowded dormitory town for the over-privileged.

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